Hire A-Players Like This CEO Who Grew His Company 140%

Hire A-Players Like This CEO Who Grew His Company 140%Eric Siu, CEO of Single Grain, one half of The absatzwirtschaft School Podcast, and voice behind the Growth Everywhere podcast, joins The Growth Recruiting Podcast to share how he recruits for his fast growing digital marketing agency. In this episode, youll learn how touse provenmarketing techniquesto drive amazing recruiting results. Eric discusses his role in the hiring process as CEO and gives tips on improving yur candidate conversions.The Growth Recruiting Podcast is available in iTunesShow notes124 About Eric422 About Single Grain620 Erics recruiting strategy1100 Hiring for positions outside yur wheelhouse1335 Single Grains end-to-end hiring process1444 Erics secret to getting candidates completing video interviews1641 Applying Marketing techniques to hiring1850 A CEOs role in Hiring2103 Single Grains hiring course2207 Erics advice to scaling your team2545 Improving candidate conversion like a marketer2836 Erics favorites30 53 Erics new SaaS product (clickflow.io)Resources mentioned on the episodeTripItWorkableSpark HireMomentThe Coaching Habit Say Less, Ask More Change the Way You Lead ForeverObjective Management GroupThe A-Player Hiring BlueprintLinkedIn Recruiterclickflow.ioCareers at Single GrainContact info ericsinglegrain.com or Twitter ericosiuTranscriptJosh Welcome to The Growth Recruiting Podcast. My name is Josh Tolan and today I am joined by Eric Siu, the CEO of Single Grain, which is a digital marketing agency that helps fortune 500 companies along with venture backed startups scale their revenue. Eric is a contributing writer to Entrepreneur magazine, Business Insider, Forbes, Fast Company, and Time magazine. He also hosts two tremendously popular podcasts Marketing School with Neil Patel and Growth Everywhere. Im a big fan of Erics work than I am so stoked to have him on the podcast today. Eric, whats up man?Eric Josh, thanks so much for having me.Josh For sure. For sure. Hows everythin g going?Eric Things are great, man. I trust things are good in your world.Josh Everything is good. I cant complain. So I gave the audience a little bit of a teaser about your background, but the best distributionspolitik to start is if you could give a little bit of an introduction about yourself and your company and what youre up to.Eric Yeah, absolutely. So my background, lets landsee. I worked in tech before led marketing for a angeschlossen education startup called Treehouse.Long story short, we basically were about to run out of cash, but now the company is a $100 billion company. And then from there, I had the unique challenge of, being able to save a failing company instead of a stagnant company. I decided to take the challenge because, you know, what am I going to lose right? But one year into it, I actually ended up taking over the entire company. So I own the whole thing now.And, you know, Ive just really enjoyed teaching people so, all the stuff I learned around marketing , from guys like yourself, and other entrepreneurs, I have the Growth Everywhere Podcast for that. And then Marketing School is just where I get to nerd out with my colleague Neil Patel and just nerd out on those things and kind of hold ourselves accountable to staying good at marketing as well. And then beyond that, right now we have a SaaS tool that were working on. I have my hands in many different cookie jars,cause I like working on different things.Josh Thats awesome. Yeah. Well I have to say that Im a huge fan as you know, of all of the marketing content did that you guys put out. I definitely am a big follower and learn a lot from what you guys are putting out there. So I have to ask and enlighten the audience as well. So we both went to UC San Diego. We both studied economics and it looks like you Did you minor in history as well?Eric I did.Josh Thats the exact saatkorn path that I took. So now Im the CEO of a company that is a technology company serving, the HR and recruitm ent industry and you are the CEO of a digital marketing agency. So we both didnt go down the economic path. What really led you into the marketing world?Eric Honestly, coming out of UC San Diego, this is like right after the whole financial crisis. So the only job I could get, and I live in downtown LA right now. Im actually looking at the building that I first started working in. Its the Wells Fargo Building and you know, the first job I got welches a dead end data entry job and I was like, man. I remember Mike Judge who created Silicon Valley and Beavis and Butt-head. He was the commencement speaker and coming out of college I was like, Man, this is it, huh? Like you sitting in a cubicle like this is it. And thats exactly what happened to me. Then, I knew it wasnt for me anymora when there was a guy that was nine years older than me, graduated from Harvard and he was just sitting there. And, his life was just looked like it was over, right? So, my friend told me about digital mark eting and I ended up getting into that and then, I just think kind of compounded from there and I never looked back.Josh Thats awesome. I mean, youve just been all over the place. Ive seen you traveling, youre speaking How many different countries have you been to or can you even keep track anymora?Eric Oh man, if I open, TripIt, Im sure Ill find out. But I can tell you this year, I was gone 32% of the year.Josh Thats nuts. Thats very cool. That Im sure youve seen some pretty cool places. So Single Grain, digital marketing agency. You said you took it over when it was a failing company. What does the company look like now? How many people do you guys have? What does growth look like and what are the goals going forward?Eric Totally. So, the numbers I can speak to, we have 30 people. And were adding another like three, four people next month. So things are growing, in of kind of growth rates on the employment side, its going pretty quickly. And then, you know, I think were closing t hings out 2017 versus the belastung year. Grew about 140% and adding another three or four people next month.Josh Thats awesome. And then going forward, I mean, are there plans to really scale head count at Single Grain? I know you talked about the new SaaS tool that youve been building out and starting to market that. So. So what are the plans in 2018 and going beyond that?Eric Yeah, the plan for Single Grain. I think weve been fortunate where, you know, this is funny because I kind of, you know, I had a debate with my team. Two people from my team were saying, and were putting all this money into content marketing, but whats the ROI? And then I broke it down for them.All of our clients are from content marketing, everythings inbound, but had guys like, you know, its good that we have inbound, but sometimes its feast or famine, right. So I said, hey guys, we need to build, were going to build a sales team and in 2018 so we can really scale things up so we can have like, we can kin d of diversify a little bit. So thats a really big focus. But at the same time, weve really added a lot of kind of senior bench strength, especially the last couple of months. So Im really excited to see kind of where that goes and what manifest from that in 2018. So Im really excited about the team at Single Grain.And theres the SaaS product, you know, thats something, because, Im not married or anything like that, no children, I can burn all the way until you know, midnight every single night. Just working on that.Josh Thats awesome. So as, as the team is growing and as youre hiring more and more people. I know you said youre looking to bring on at least a few people right now and Im on your site right now and Im looking at your careers page to see a handful of openings. So when you look at your recruiting, are you the one thats handling all the hiring as the CEO of a 30 person organization or do you have other people that are involved?Eric Yeah, great question. So my, ops guy r ight now, hes kind of the first line of defense and then were also bringing on kind of an operations associate to, kind of be another one. We actually might consider, Im just thinking a couple of months down the road, maybe Q3 or Q4, well probably be looking at an HR person/recruiter. But, to answer your question directly. Im basically involved in all hiring decisions. I dont think Im going to let that go, maybe until, a hundred or 200 people because I want to be able to make the final call and ultimately its my fault. Right. Like if, we make the wrong hiring decision, Im going to put it on myself at the end of the day. So at least I want to have some kind of touch on it because I think I have a good sense for who we should have and you know, I think everyone thinks that. So thats just kinda the way it is with me too.Josh Yeah, thats for sure. And, Im assuming thats because, I mean obviously you have a good feel for skill platzset, you know, youre a digital marketer, youre hiring f or your digital marketing agency. So Im sure you can vet that out pretty well, but I would imagine that you want to have your touches on the hiring process for as long as possible so you can continue to make sure that the people youre bringing on board match like the characteristics and personality traits. Mainly like from like a cultural fit standpoint for the people that youre bringing on.Eric Yeah. You know, people, I think people will talk about culture like this, you know, that you can kind of just brush over and I think you and I have probably realized over time that this closer thing is, is really important. And so, you know, sometimes its, you could have, the person with the right skills, but theyre not the right person, right? So wrong person, right seat, those people need to go. But if a person is the right person, the right cultural fit, and they might be in the wrong seat, so at least you can move them to another seat. But I think its really important because if you have some guy that can, you know, a really good individual contributor, but hes, toxic and makes other people feel bad that its a lot and I think that kind of, makes the company, youre kind of incurring this debt for the long-term and you dont want to be doing that.Josh Definitely. And so, at your company, are there specific characteristics or personality traits that you individually look for in a potential hire?Eric Yeah, I think number one for me just kind of stems from the top. I think is growth, someone thats really growth-oriented. So I can tell really quickly, how do you learn how you go about getting better, right? You can kind of see it.I remember I was asking this one guy, I was like, So tell me how do you learn, how do you get better?And hes like, I dont really learn, I dont follow anybody, you know? I was like, Who do you follow in marketing, Dah, Dah, Dah.I dont do that, you know, because I dont see the need to whatever.Well thats pretty damning, right? Like, if youre not tr ying to get better then you know, probably thats good for you, but not the right fit for us.So we look at growth and we looked at people that have it. I think thats the first thing.And then also people that have really long-term einbildung. So, Ill ask people and sometimes people totenstill cant answer me directly. I dont know why, but just tell me like if you were to reisepass, you know, whats one thing that youd want to do to consider your life success, right? Could be like find your mom a home or something like that. So I really want to get kind of an idea of what they think, what theyre aiming for and then try to align with that also and try to get, help them get there too. So I think thats important to have that long-term vision.Josh Yeah, I mean I think being growth oriented is, is huge. I definitely vet for those same things. Like in our hiring process, I always ask two questions during an in-person interview. One, I want to know like if the person has any personal goal set, even it could be outside of work, like it could be learning to play the guitar, but I want to see like how they go about setting a goal, what theyre working on, um, because I want to make sure that theyre motivated.And then I also like to ask, what is the hardest youve ever had to work for something? Because I like somebody to take me through the process of, like, they set a goal, it was maybe a big mileshre that they had to achieve. They had to work really hard and I want to know like what they consider hard work, because I want that type of person in our organization, somebody that like can set a really high level goal. Maybe its a three year goal, but something that they have their eyes on and theyre really motivated to achieve it. I love asking those questions.Its interesting that were both aligned on, on that same type of thing in both of our hiring processes. So looking at your jobs right now, I see Paid Advertising Manager, a Sales Development Rep, which I imagine is parte of building out the sales team and a few other types of roles. So, youre not just hiring marketing people, right? Like youve got the, the advertising manager, youve got the salesperson, youve got an executive assistant. So youre from a marketing background and youre involved in the hiring process for unterstellung roles that are non-marketing roles. What do you feel like are some of the things that youve learned when youre hiring for these roles that like you might not necessarily have ever done this job before or really know the skill that it takes to do this job.Eric Yeah, thats a really good question. I think thats the thing, right? Like, for us, at least for me, you know, being a non-technical person, how do you hire developers and how do you manage them? Right? So I think it all starts with, kind of what are the tasks for us, right? Because every single job is a list of responsibilities and tasks, right? But I think at the very least, if you can map that out in the very beginning , thats super important and if you dont know what those roles and responsibilities are, you can do, what I used to do. I just go look at the job description and then what I would do afterwards is I would, plektrum up some of my friends, that are developers or are in the CTO position and ask them, does this make sense? Is this outdated? What else should I be looking out for? And sometimes I might have them come help vet.Ill give you like a kind of more tactical example from a sales perspective, before we were kind of just hiring off of gut feeling. You know, did they play any sports, can they do a role play with me, are they coachable. Right? Those are all important. But what we did was we added a sales assessment. I forgot what its called, but its, Ill have to share it with you afterwards (Objective Management Group), but theres a sales assessment we use that is really spot on when it comes to, hiring people were looking for consultative sellers and for every single person that weve put through that test, some people say theyre too emotional. For some other people theyre not a closer, but theyre a great hunter. Right? And you find out through the interview, you basically tailor the interview questions around that and you find that to be really true and you can drill in.Without going too much into the weeds, for developers, you could ask your developer buddies, are there any kind of code test or challenges that you can run these people through to see if they fit. And then, you know, sometimes what I do with people is Ill also run them through aa project, right? So, you know, one or two week project, you know, if its a designer/developer and we see how we work together and if it goes well then lets, lets think about full-time, if not well then you know, thats OK.Josh Thats awesome. Thats really good advice here. So as youre going through your current hiring process, and Im on your careers page right now, it looks like you guys have an ATS, are using Workable fro m what I can see, what does the hiring process look like from end to end for you guys? Where are you sourcing people? Where are you posting your jobs? Where are you finding them? How are you screening them through the process? What does that end-to-end cycle look like?Eric Yeah. OK. So lets see. For the SDR kind of role and the executive assistant kind of role. I think the more mid level or you can even say junior to mid level roles, we could actually, you know, put a job posting up on Workable and it will post to, 15 different job boards.And then what well do there, I think this is what a lot of people do is usually, well put in the job description, something like if theyre applying for a sales job well say you must put sales is cool in the subject line or else your application will be disqualified. We find that about 92 to 98 percent of people do not follow directions. If they cant follow directions, and be detail oriented in the beginning, probably not going to be a good fit for your company. Right? So right out of the gate we can just disqualify a ton of people make life a lot easier.And then after that, we will, if its like an executive assistant or mid level role, or even like an intern for example, what well do is we will say, Hey, are you open to doing a video interview? Because what weve found in the past is instead of just, we used to send them links, people just kind of go away. Getting that micro commitment from people saying, would you be open to doing a video interview, through our video interview, app, Spark Hire? Yes, we use Spark Hire. And theyll say yes. And from there,we have a template in the ATS and theyll basically run through that. If they pass through that, then theyll go to the next step which is an in-person and then, thats with, my ops guy and maybe someone else. And then the next level is me. And then finally its, reference checks, background checks, and the offer.Josh Nice. Nice. So it sounds like you guys have a pretty systematic approach. I think thats for a smaller company, sometimes thats rare because either things are growing too fast and they cant get things in order or theres just not enough focus or importance put on a hiring process. But it sounds like you guys are doing a lot of stuff to make sure that youre ending up with the right people.Eric I think its one of the fruchtwein important things you can do. Right? Or one of the most important things. Like its all people at the end of the day, I dont care if you tank, whatever, like everythings tech nowadays anyway. So like if you cant get your people process down, Im still not happy with our process. Im still trying to tweak it every single day. I look at it like weve got to make sure its more consistent, whatever. Cause if you, have bottlenecks in that process and you have a couple of bad eggs come through because your process wasnt buttoned up, then that can cost your company, six, seven, eight figures, nine figures in revenueJosh For sure. Yeah. I mean hiring, especially at a startup company or an early stage, young company, a bad hire can seriously bankrupt the business. Its that important where you really need to make sure youre making good, quality decisions and not only getting the most skilled people, but also the people that, you know, have the right personality and characteristics that youre looking for to help the company grow.So being a marketer, I think that there are so many things that were marketing comes into recruiting, right? Marketing and sales. So with your marketing background what are other things that you have used to convert candidates at a higher rate or get them more excited about working for your brand. Like what things from your marketing background are you applying to hiring?Eric Yeah. Were continually trying to improve our career stage, right? So what were doing right now is were going to have a were making a video because weve built out video production capabilities just to give people a sense o f what its like to actually work at Single Grain. I think its cool that they can see the clients that we work with, but I think its really important, like we have a pretty good class or a review. I think its good to call that out because the fact of the matter is theyre spending, what, eight hours a day plus sitting with a bunch of people. They want to make sure that they actually liked those people. I think thats really important. I think also the reason why I also want my touch on every kind of every candidate at least right now is so they can understand what my vision is, and what I see happening with the company, and they can tell that I also care about their future as well. Its not just about, Eric wants to hit his goals all the time. So I think its that mutual kind of trust. I think thats really important and the more trust you can show the people, the better. Im not saying were perfect by any means, but its something that were always trying to optimizeJosh For sure. I think t he other thing thats really key about,you being involved in the hiring process and at Spark Hire, I take a lot of pride in this as well, is I use these touch points with the candidate because theyre interviewing you as well, right?So you want to make sure that youre putting everything out there are being transparent with them about like what the growth path looks like at Single Grain and where you can see them going and why, you and other people that are working at the company. You think its a great place to work.So I think like the touch points that you have with a candidate are probably the most critical because theyre looking at you as the leader and the visionary for the company. So if they feel like youre somebody that they can get behind, its definitely a company that, theyre going to want to join for sure. So I think its really important to get involved early. Because you dont like somebody like fester in their own thoughts about what the company and what the vision is like u ntil they meet with you at the very end. You can like kind of get ahead of that.Eric Yeah, totally. The other thing Ill add too is you bring up a good point. Like having the CEO involved is really important. I think also at the same time, I think video interviewing is important, but just keep in mind when youre talking to you kind of, senior level, executive level people, sometimes you might have to have that touch point, that CEO touch point first. You might not even be able to use the video interview. In our case, obviously they are really good people, theyre getting people looking for them all the time and they dont want a video interview.Josh You definitely have to adapt the hiring process to the people that youre recruiting. I think theres no doubt about that. Different roles are going to require different processes, whether its a more intense process, sometimes youre going to sacrifice speed. It really depends on the positions that youre recruiting for and what youre going for in your hiring process. So obviously you guys put out a lot of great marketing content. I follow like, everything you guys put out. But I know you also created a course on hiring. So what made you decide to put out some content on the subject matter of hiring when everything else is pretty much about marketing?Eric Yeah, so this goes back to not having as good a process, right? So when I first took over this company, again, it was a failing kind of SEO company and we decided to pivot into content marketing as the other service, right? Because its easier to go from SEO to content marketing because, you know, the SEO skill set can be easily moved over. But, anyway, long story short, I got a recommendation for someone that could become our director of content. I didnt really do a good job of vetting that person. I fully blamed myself, but we actually ended up losing four clients and we ended up losing two people because of that person. And we lost about $800,000 or so in that range in terms of revenue and were already failing, and we were falling even more.So I was like, OK, we know we got to have some kind of process here for, for hiring and you know, if I can get this course out, at least I can send it to, people on my team. And then you know have them, go through with it because I think hiring is, people talk about marketing and growth hacks all the time. I mean that, that is your growth hack. Hiring great people, having a great culture. Thats the biggest growth hack to meJosh For sure. And its your biggest spend, so you make sure you better make sure you do it right. So it sounds like a really big pain point in your own experience is what really inspired you to create that so others didnt have to go through that. So, if people want to download and theyre interested in subscribing to that course, like without giving too much away, are there any like actionable things that people will learn from the training or any teaser you can give about it?Eric Yeah, so we definitely have an intern process in there. We even have a firing process in the bonus sections, but basically, its how do you, when you think about your hiring, you have to have in terms of systematizing things, do you have a role scorecard, right? What other kinds of templates and you have that makes process a lot more easier. And I hate using the word streamlined, but it is streamlined, right? So its basically, here are the processes that you need to create a template that you can swipe and deploy. From there you should be able to create a button up process just for your company. Were just giving you the blueprint there. So thats why we call it Yhe A-player Hiring Blueprint.Josh Awesome. So it sounds like youre just giving people basically a framework to work within, so typically youll work with your clients to give them these growth frameworks to scale their revenue through marketing. But, this course seems to be all about putting a similar framework in place to make sure that people are going about hiring the right way. So thats awesome. Thats really good of you guys to do that. So I definitely recommend to the audience to check that out. Some really good content. Im sure youll be able to take a lot away from it.So, couple more questions. So what advice for other CEOs that are maybe at a company similar to your size, maybe theyre smaller, maybe there bigger,but as theyre looking to scale their team and theyre starting to hit some growth stages where theyre going to be bringing on more and more people. Are there anything, is there anything that you can give them as far as advice? Should they be like dedicating specific time to their recruiting? Like as a CEO begins to really grow their company, what should they be doing? What should they be thinking about? Whats most important?Eric Yeah. You know what, I actually got this tip yesterday as I was interviewing somebody else. Hes known for kind of saving companies. He the recent company he just joined, he br ought it from $75,000,000 to about $250,000,000. And hes just saying this like blocking out time each week, to focus on providing value to your network. And then what he also does there is he also asks people like, Hey, who should I be talking to? Were kind of looking for this role.But the idea is basically hes helping people first asking, How can I help? And he has a very methodical process and how he just stays in touch with people he wants to continue to have a strong relationship with. But then from there, he has the equity where he can just ask. And what happened was when he came into this company, he brought 20 people that he knew, 20 people that he worked with at other companies. Or, kind of referrals as well and they built on a completely new senior team and a management team too.When youre able to make deposits in the bank early, especially for us, earlier in our careers right now, or we should say, yeah, I still think its pretty early, but making those deposits and then la ter going to withdraw those at the bank, youre going to have exponential returns because youve helped people now its in their interest to help you.Josh So its like a long-term nurture play.Eric Yeah, exactly. And I think, earlier what I did was I also said I forgot where I read this from, but, spending at least an hour or two every single day just focused on recruiting. Whether its, you know, going on on Linkedin, messaging people, I find Linkedin to be great when youre kind of laser targeting people. I just use Linkedin Recruiter and the response rates are pretty good.We actually have a ton of candidates, from a, content marketing role that we were looking for, but thats something where you can just record a screencast using something like loom and then handed off to a virtual assistant and they could just send your templates and youll probably have people responding to you.Josh Thats great. So I liked that you bring that up because that leads me into my next question.Theres a lot of people that are working in talent acquisition that dont have, marketing experience like you do and it sounds like youre doing a really good job at converting people through your hiring funnel specifically.Like, as you just mentioned, getting a good response rate on Linkedin inmails. I dont think that every talent acquisition professional out there can say that and its probably because the way that theyre writing these templates or the ways that theyre going about doing these things and as far as targeting people.So is there any advice that you can give to people that are in recruiting that dont have this marketing background? Like, how can they get better at this as far as like marketing their jobs, marketing the company, um converting candidates through the funnel. How can they improve? What are some of the things that they should be doing or following?Eric Yeah, its a good question. So I think about sales. We get sales emails all the time, right? How do people actually get your attention? So, what I noticed recently, and Ill just give a sales email or a podcast interview example. I think I saw an episode on Shark Tank where somebody was, I think, I think the product was like oatmeal or something. I was like, oh, thats really cool. I want to get these people on the podcast. But instead of saying, something too generic like, wed love to interview you for this, like some really generic subject line. I said, hey, can I promote you to, 100,000 listeners or 30,000 people on my email list, right? Thats a little more enticing for someone like me and you. Where its like youre looking for more distribution, you want more branding. The response rate was 100 percent on a couple of emails that I sent. I should probably do more of those.But when it comes to recruiting, for example basically what well say is we keep it really simple because like what I find from the recruiters is that sometimes when they send you the title of the email is, basically like every single wo rd is capitalized. Thats when, theyre just basically blasting it to everyone or something really basic like looking to connect or something like that.But if you make it Content Marketing Role and then, maybe you put the salary range, its like $100k plus or something like that. Youre going to get peoples attention, right? Theyre gonna open it and say, Hey, do you know anybody thats interested? Maybe youre not asking them directly but youre going to get a response, right? So thats when I start to see, you know, were talking 25 to 40 percent response rates depending on the role.Josh Interesting. Well, I think you brought up a good point, like as youre talking about the email that you wrote to get that person from Shark Tank on your podcast. I think what you really hit on was your messaging is more focused on like whats in it for the other person.I think people need to do that more in their recruiting.Like you dont want to just send messages to people and like toot your own horn and tal k about your company and how great it is to work there. Thats all important. But I think, if you can really personalize a message to maybe some things youve found on their Linkedin profile in their interests and then also personalize it, about what it would look like for them to be at your company and what you feel like the impact they can make on your company. I feel like if you can make that messaging a little bit more about them, youll probably get a higher response rate. I think thats pretty much like any like sales and marketing activity.Eric Thats so important. Yeah. Even if you do customize, even like five to 10 percent of it, at least you put in time, people are going to appreciate thatJosh For sure. For sure. And you can, thats the type of stuff, like you could still systemize that, like you dont need to spend an hour crafting every single message, like you can have a foundation to those messages that youre sending and then you can have like this, whether you put it in like little curly brackets or something to make sure that you update it. You can have like a personalization piece where you insert your two to three sentences or one or two sentences, whatever it is to really personalize that, that message to the candidate.Eric Awesome.Josh Yep. So, so real quickly before we wrap up, I just like to go through some favorite things. So just a couple of questions for you. So do you have a favorite interview question?Eric Yeah, a favorite interview question. I actually stole this from Elon Musk. You know what, tell me about the most impressive career win to date.Josh Nice. Nice and favorite app. Itd be a mobile app, web app, whatever.Eric You know, what I like right now is theres this app called Moments that I use on iOS and basically it shows me how much time Im spending on my phone every day and it was basically alert me. Thats one of the few notifications I have on. Its like, hey, you spent an hour on the phone today, or hey you spent two hours, youre o ver your limit. Im drastically trying to limit it and plus it shows me how much time Im spending on each app. So I ended up deleting like Youtube and Facebook from my phone.Josh Thats good. I think theres like some chrome extensions that are like that too, that like monitor your web besucherzahlen and tell you like, hey, youre spending eight hours a day on Facebook. You should probably stop if you want to be productive.Eric Yup.Josh So thats awesome. Um, favorite quote?Eric Yeah. Its from Zig Ziglar. Actually. You know what I. I like this Winston Churchill one. Its always kind of up in the air. Ill say, Ill say, whats the Churchill for this one? Because it just popped in my head. If youre going through hell, keep going.Josh Nice. Any favorite book could be something youre reading right now or it could be an all time favorite.Eric Yeah. You know this one book, I just read this on my trip back from Japan. I literally finished it in a couple hours and thats really rare for me. Its call ed The Coaching Habit, so its basically on how you can. Itll change the way you lead people forever because I think entrepreneurs, especially you and me, we just were used to getting things done, but instead of trying to prescribe answers to people and give advice all the time, it teaches you how to tease the answer out of people and really coach them up.Josh Interesting. Ill have to check that one out. So and last question, I know you just went to Japan, so maybe thats the answer, but whats your favorite vacation spot?Eric Yeah, it has to be Japan, just all the learnings and you know all the people I met.Josh Well thats awesome. Well Eric, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast today. If people want to connect with you, where can they find you?Eric Yeah, they could just email me directly. Eric, ericsinglegrain.com, or twitter. Thats ericosiu.Josh And is there anything else youd like to add before we sign off?Eric Yeah, final thing is uh, if any of you get above 100,000 Googl e traffic or organic traffic per month, just go to clickflow.io. We have, thats our new SaaS SEO product.Josh Thanks so much Eric. That was awesome. I really appreciate it. Have a great day everyone.